tv Lou Dobbs Tonight FOX Business June 12, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT
>> good evening thank you for being with us, confessed ns, leaker edward snowden after a brief vanishing act is speaking and complicating the global image of the man who remains in hong kong and today he razeed -- raised stakes in his campaign against u.s. agencies and their surveillance, snowden telling south china morning post, that u.s. is engaged in more than 60,000 hacking operations worldwide. modesnowed ep said thatsnowden e ofgets of u.s. intelligence.
snowed know said quote, i am neither a traitor 94 hero, i am an american. >> today's statements may explain who snowden is actually working for. and why this spectical overwhelmed president obama's two day summit with chinese president. and what insight does snowden's conduct and words suggest to whys white house still refuses to characterize the status of the man who many in congress are now calls a traitor. has the white house not noticed that head of nsatestified on capitol hill. as to what snowden has done. and the damage that he has caused. has administration not noticed its own department of justice is drawing up charges against the leaker who has publicly
confessed his acts. some might ask who he is leading this country in what direction, fox poll just released an hour ago when asked about current state of leadership in washington, americans said, by a margin of 71%, is this the best we can do? the same fox poll shows president's job performance underwater. only 44% of those surveyed approve of his performance, 50% disapprovement president obama to biz to deal with some security issues today with a packed schedule for a trip to boston to campaign for senator markey. and two fund raisers, president obama leaving general alexander to endure the questions of senate appropriation committee all afternoon, trying be as
transparent as one can be, leading the nation's intelligence agencies, admitting that nsahelped foil several terror plots at home and abroad, addressing the nsa's credibility issues and dismissing various claim by snowden. fox news. chief intelligence correspondent katherine hairage has our report. >> the nsa director, alexander offered numbers. >> it is dozens of terrorists evens that these have helped prevent. >> reporter: intelligence committee leadership, claim that sweeping collection of data disrupted a 2009 plot targeting new york city subway, general alex angealexander conceding tok leahy that is not the case.
>> it started with a 702, set of information based on operatives to a person in colorado.ions in that was passed to the fbi. >> reporter: a senior democrat complained about the nsa's application of patriot act, section 215, so-called records provision. >> i quarrel with collecting all of the information in california on telephone records that seems to be overly broad. >> i saw an interview in which mr. snowden claimed due to his position at nas, he could tap into virtually any american's phone call, or e-mails. true or false? >> i know of no way to do that. >> reporter: while alexander said that -- must be cleared by
a national security court, senator said of it not enough given pervasive environment of mistrust. >> the american public is fearful that in this massive amount of data you get, that there is the ability of federal government to since these that data -- since tha that date is n something more. >> reporter: i heard today from a source that the united states government is trying to bully hong kong government into extraditing me before the local government can 11 o learn of ths national security agency hacking people in hong kong. >> i do not have anything new. >> reporter: on thursday, a rare briefing of full senate on the nsadata collect programs, alexander will testify gain,
this session it classified and closed to the public. lou: thank you, katherine. my first get resigned from nsa after a career spanning more than 3 decades protesting growing domestic surveillance, joining me william benny. former nsa employee and whistle-blower, thank you for joining us, your reaction to snowden's comments, talking about hacking operations of the united states government. clearly putting preferring to put his fate in the hands of hong kong kon. >> i am not privy to the hacking. that at active attack system in forth mead.
neil: you lef -- >> you left the nsa in protest over the government to cop dull conduct surveillance. seeking out terrorists after september 11, 2001, you have seen history since. what are your thoughts now? >> from where i sit, and what i have seen and read, and i know, they are attacking two communication systems. public switch telephone network. that is a world wide system, that will they could looking -- they are looking at the internet, worldwide web. so those are like phone numbers.
or you can draw the analogy, they are pulling in that data, to reconstruct the communities of interest or if you will, social networks of every individual in the world, in particular reason i left, one of reason i could not stay there was fact they were doing it to every u.s. citizen. my knowledge was they were taking in about 320 million records of long-distance call of u.s. citizens to other u.s. citizens every day, that started inning oedin october, 2001, thai could not be a part of that. lou: patriot act that followed authorization for the government to begin much of that surveillance, did that allay your concerns? >> no, the issue, what they can
do the capability, for example tea party. would you like to reconstruction tea party or occupy groups, and who is central to the tea party, who is peripheral, and who is coming and you could have data about them, including get their names, if they apply for a tax exempt status you can check the list, then targ them if you want to. this is the problem with government having so much knowledge about the citizens of the nation. lou: the knowledge about the citizens of the country, versus the records of their communications, whether we go to operation prism, that include e-mails, video, you know along with the phone calls, and those voice communication. it is what do you with them, the storage in and was itself -- in and of itself troubles you,
others say, when it is meted, you don't tril down unless you have prob always and reason and great specificity, i hear you say that is an illusion. >> there are two ways to intelligence, one is read what they are saying, and pay attention. the other is to build a metadata see how they interact with one another, when do you that and timeline that, you can see who is doing what with whom and infer some activity they are intending to do, for example if you had a drug smuggler in colombia that wanted to smuggle drugs in u.s., he would have to communicate with someone in u.s. in some form to a range the sell and buy. then he would have to arrange with someone to transport it, and then transfer the money, and the drugs, those have to happen,
they show up as interactions in metta data, 1 you see them, you can enter that is what they are doing. there is a lot you can do, you can see, if you are having medical problems, you see medical doctors you visit, making appointments with. you know, metadata is dangerous. lou: it is also ubiquitous and accessible not only by government, talking about that balance, with surveillance and civil rights, and importance of our law, but we're also talking about corporations. whether they be internet companies, net providers, whether they be large vast technology and telecommunications company, all of them sharing the very information you describing in to agency of the government that we rely up on fond provide this --
to provide that surveillance. best understanding of knowledge of what is happening in world of internet in switch communications it is a very difficult -- if you will, bramble and thicket to navigate. >> and there is a another real danger, talk about trust. you have to trust the government. but you have to trust all of the people in the government, they can get on a terminal look at those systems get in to any database they want, to you have to trust contractors who maintain that database and communication and quary routines, you have to trust all them not to go into that database, to look for things from other companies or something or competitors or look -- if you wanted to see if your wife is cheating on you, you dock that it is in the data -- you could do that, that is in the database.
you know, there is so many pitfalls, so main dangers, that assembling this information about individuals. lou: inferring relationships also, seeking out with great specificity, connections from which to draw intelligent analysis and conclusions, which is what we do want the nsa to do. i am left then with the trust, ronald reagan, trust by verify, i think we would all expect nsa to verify, verify, verify irrespective who of the employee might be or position they might hold. the question is, in government do we trust? do we trust the president, the most latest polls say we do not, do we trust congress?
hardly. we cannot say that state department, and internal revenue service, that justice department, merit our trust can >> no. you can't. and there is anooher myth they are circulating around washington, they are claiming that is the truth. that is that you have to collect all of this data to get the terrorists. that is false. >> how so? >> two principles to use in their collection of data and analysis to do that one, is if you i call to two degree principle, if you have a terrorist call someone in u.s., first-degree. and second is who that person in u.s. calls, there is a -- that forms a zone of suspecttion -- suspicion, you take that with monitoring jihadi advocating sites, and those who advocate the violence against the west, and see who is accessing those. they -- that ag gate then is
your suspicion, zone of suspicion, we would have gotten the fort hood shoot every, and boston bombers, they did that, they were a part of that, i do not know of anyone that would not have fall en int fallen int category, that is the principle i was using. lou: you bring up boston bombing to me that is a failure of human up teligent, clear communication between cia and russian agencies, clear communications, between the russian agents, and fbi. i presume between the cia and fbi perhaps local. just speculating, but that is human intelligence that was an abjec failure. >> i also called it a intelligence failure was the -- part of it, they showed up in the call records, and even --
>> corroborated. >> yes, ex-fbi agent, clemente, he said no digital communications were safe, they had a way of getting back to communications between one of the bombers and his wife. lou: as we've -- it has been fascinating listening to you take us through this and try as best we can to comprehend part of what you are talking about. in architecture of the operations of the agency and intelligence signal intelligence, let me can you this -- let me ask you this, you were talking about these nodes that are created by a series of connections, woor whether communication wean a jihaddist and someone in it country, what do you make of the event of president of united states complaining mightily about cyberattacks, and ends up in southern california desert with
president ping. two day summit, cyberattacks against the u.s. to be a large agenda item, tough talk from the president, and suddenly that two day summit, is vaporized by someone by the name of edward snowden. and his revelations, and his forth coming details. in this -- tell me if you find a node, a coincidence, or just random circumstance, in intelligence terms? >> well, it could be random, i would not be able to say, but the entire government could have avoided this, if they have been more honest with everything they are doing with the public. and if they would have done a proper job. a legal job a a constitutionally acceptable job. lou: no question.
you -- i find myself, you know, host of this broadcast scratching my head, and marveling at it. >> well, there is a probability of association. that that question would be did snowden know about the visit for from hinese premier, and iffy did, then, and he could have connected with with that. certainly that is a possibility. >> well, a lot of possibilities remain for us. and will until we know, william bennett, thank you for expanding our knowledge. and i assure you, fault lies with me, not you, we appreciate it so much. >> thank you. lou: we'll have more on the scandals that grip obama administration throughout this broadcast. stay with us. >> he is not tricky dick or a
slick willie, with so many scandals rocking obama administration, do you think that it is time president obama had his own nickname. we're want tut, we're looking for your suggestions. we know a ple where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep, and lunesta eszopiclone can help y get the, like it has for so many people before. do not take lunesta if you are allergic to anything in it. when taking lunesta, n't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving o engaging in other activities while asleep without remembering it the next day have been reported. lunesta should not be taken together with alcohol. abnormal behaviors may include aggressivess, agitation, hallinations or confusion. in depreed pients, worsening of depressn, including risk of suicide, may occur.
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lou: we're going to be talking with chairman, bob goodlot, conggessman from virginia, we're going to talk immigration, and the scandals in particular the nsa . story as it is advancing but first we'll bring you to update on wall street, stocks finishing near session lows could dow jones with a triple digit plunge.
posting first three day lose streak of the year, down 127, s&p lost 14, and nazdaq down 37. volume on the big board remaining modest. gold gaining $15, crude oil up 50-cent the. in the bond market. yield too 10 year rose to 2.23%. senator ted cruz offering his stark assessment on future of the "gang of 8" bill. >> i very much want common sense immigration reform to pass. this bill is going to pass the senate. but as written, this bill will not pass the house. as written, this bill will not pass into law. and if this bill did become law, it would not solve the problem.
indeed it would make the problem of illegal immigration we have today worse, rather than better. >> for more now on future of immigration reform, latest on the nsa leaking scandal we're joins by congressman bob goodlot of virginia, thank you, let me ask you for your evaluation, you are -- you have moved forward 4 elements, stand alone bills, the agact, the agriculture guessworker program, legal work force act, that is everify employer verification of those hired, and skills act, and the safe act. how nene are that you we're going to see sensible reform
emerge from the house and senate this year? >> i feel very good about safe act you mentioned last. it is not being dealt in senate anyway. that does not cover problem. once you are in a student voice argue don't have interior enforcement involving state and local government, involving other measures that prohibit president from flipping a switch, and not enforcing aspects of our immigration laws, you are not addressing the problem. senator cruz made good points in the remark you just broadcast, we're attempts to go a very different direct in the house where we fix his problem as we
address the overall immigration situation. lou: your incremental approach, is taking on the issues that matter most, they are elemental, the foundation issues of illegal immigration in the country. and at this point, how confident are you that you will have the leadership support, and support of the house? >> we think that we have gotten a very good response from our rank and file members in the house, and our leadership on the step by step approach that we're talking. this i file very good about pro -- feel very good about producing good solid legislation that addresses these problem, before we jump to conclusion about what kind of legal status should be given to people who are not present in u.s., we'll start that process in terms of
markups very soon, we'll pursue is aggressively but we are not bound by a time table, we're bound by getting it right. lou: that involves the nsa, you have been briefed up on what is going to there and leaker snowden. i would like your charactering a if you will -- characterization if you will n this wrung man, and i would like to hear, tomorrow you will have a classified meeting with robert mueller, head of fbi, essentially -- i am sorry. >> we had the classified briefing yesterday. with the deputy director of the fbi, deputy attorney general, and two -- the deputy director of national security agency, and we had a few hundred house members present for that briefing, which i conducted. but tomorrow, will be on the
record with director of the fbi, while there will be some things that are classified, he will not be able to discuus it will be an opportunity for him to answer questions from members about the scope of the authority of the fbi under the laws as they are written. and to explain how the programs work or do not work to apprehend terrorists and others that are people that we want to have out of circulation who are great risks in our society, and then, the congress will have to weigh that against the obvious increased knowledge that the public has and a lot of members of congress now have about the information that the government has gathered, so they can investigate the matters,,and whether they are indeed protecting innocent u.s. citizens from violations of
their constitutional rights. >> you know, and mr. chairman, i want to apologize for saying it was classified, i thought it was the, it is an own hearing, to my delight. we' to see and hear as much as possible what is happening. one of the conundrums that faces you and others seeking to understand and govern this massive organization, we call the federal government, there has to be an understanding that we -- agencies we trust, most in this country, are the united states military, and those who are if you will, at the point of the spear, intelligence, and covert operations. and then there is rest of the government right now, it is a strange time, we don't trust congress. every poll shows so. we trust our troops. we trust their leaders. we don't trust the president.
the polls say so. we're talking about president who is under water with his approval waiting -- ratings, now. we don't trust our leadership. says this is the best that we can do. in the midst of this we have these folks, the state department, whether it is the justice department, whom we rely on for so much. you will be talking with one of the principal leaders of the justice department, the head of the fbi. i mean, we are caught in a difficult conundrum right now, and it seems to me a treacherous time, and it is not a play on words. i assure you. treacherous time for all of you are in charge of governing this great country. >> well, that is absolutely true. when you look at the benghazi scandal, you look at the irs investigation of various conservative groups, tea
parties. we find far, far more array of groups that were targeted for special investigation by the irs. when you look at the use of, i would argue, extra attention for reporters who are reporting the news and the ap, fox news reporter, the chief washington correspondent and get treated like a crock -- common criminal. the warrant to get his e-mails. lou: we should point out. treated that way by an fbi agent , a member of the justice department, and a judge. >> and approved by the attorney general. a federal judge actually apologized a few weeks ago right after the attorney general testified because he realized that what he had approved and sealed he kept sealed for an additional 18 months, longer than he had agreed to. and i think he probably realize
when all of the scandals broke that he had forgotten to do that. so that actually help thus saith advance our investigation considerably. is the job of the congress and the judiciary committee to take the necessary steps to look into this newsletter and the others, of course, but this newsletter to find out what we need to do to increase the test of the american people in their military commander intelligence gathering, the fbi because they do have to do their jobs. they have to do them right. if the rules have to be changed in the oversight has to be changed how we should be prepared to do it. lou: we appreciate it so much. good luck tomorrow. the open hearing with the fbi director, robert miller. good to have you with us. >> thank you. lou: chairman of the house judiciary committee. up next, colorado wildfire striving thousands from their homes. we will have a full report straight ahead. stay with us. ♪
♪ lou: breaking news. it is a red flag warning in effect for western colorado and the colorado springs area tonight. a series of wildfires are driving thousands from their homes. officials say one of the worst fires, the black forest fire has destroyed somewhere between 80 and 100 homes. a triple digit decline for the dow, now three straight down days for the first time this year. s&p alec young tells us whether this is the correction. the man had on. what should he be charged with? treason, espionage? fox senior judicial analyst has a strong opinion. you may find it somewhat controversial. stay with us. the boyused double miles from ttheirapital oneenture card
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brought the world down around his head. some people describe him as a hero, others as a trader. where are you? >> i have described him as an american hero when i first learned of this. i continue to stand by that position. if he did what he said he did, if he is the person who reveals all the governments unconstitutional behavior he is confronted with the following, and of to keep secret the affirmation he was given command of to uphold the constitution, and a clash between the twoo what do you do? which desire? is up to keep secret or is us to follow the constitution? it's a no-brainer. the constitution is the supreme law of the land. the government is violating the constitution and he knows about he has a moral and constitutional obligation to reveal it. lou: you use the hypothetical. >> yes,. lou: there are lots of hypothetical. right now i don't know
specifically what he is charged with. i have not heard from him. >> adelle think any charged. odious stars gordy has been charged with. lou: what he is charging represents a violation of the constitution or law, it's unclear. and, as you step forward, and others have to come in here, does it give you some trepidation, the timing because we are in a speculative era, the timing of this revelation which wiped away a 2-day summit between the president of the essays and the president of china. his presence in hong kong and his charges that the united states was acting chinese publications and facilities. does that of give you any -- >> it does not trouble me all. the revelation, the timing of the revelation was set by the reporters to whom he spoke. he has been speaking to them for a long time. secondly, i reject the idea that we should tell on him, his
background, or his motivation. we should dwell on the government has done to us in our name, use an interesting phrase, whether this is legal or constitutional. they are different. you did. because the congress thinks that it can write in the law and regulate any behavior and tax in the event, and congress's mind whenever is as little as legal. but because the constitution restrains the congress because the constitution prohibits a search warrant for 113 million americans and they're looking for two or three. it's unconstitutional. to what the government has done is legal because the pitchers that authorizes it. but profoundly unconstitutional because the congress has attempted to disregard the constitution. lou: it will be interesting to see where you come down when all the facts are known. at this point -- >> i will give you this. with more facts every day. lou: we do, and i cannot imagine why one would not be as quiet bubble we're learning to this
point. you're a man of immense courage as well as intellect. >> it takes courage to sit here with you? [laughter] not at all. i would like to come back. lou: you have a deal, and we will make it frequently. >> thank you. lou: up next, a second consecutive day of triple digit losses for the dow. s&p capitol, global equity strategist joins us. ♪ vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but a iend under water is something mptely differe. i met a turtle friend day so, . it seemed like it was more than happy to have us in his home. so beautiful. avo:ore travel. more opt. more personal. whatever y're looking for expedia has more ways to help you find yours. how old is the oldest person you've known?
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this because bell little choppy. lou: is assisted by somebody, the market, the fed, by whom? >> the statement by the market's response to the state and by the fed. basically we all love that you eat at the markets. and that thing down markets are getting a sense that not only the fed. globally we may have seen the peak in stimulus. markets are having just on the downside. lou: one of the things i noted today, gurus are cutting it to cut talking about the prospects. i mean, come on. we're looking at the ten year. that is unnerving to a lot of votes and certainly suggests that we will see greater volatility in the bond market. the implication should be positive.
>> at this point absolutely right. the rise in bond yield is certainly not an economy killer. yields are up, but historically very benign. clearly the rising rates is a bigger threat for fixed income than it is for equity. but at the margin given that we can all agree that qe end the fed did help dispel markkt over the last few years, the idea that they may be peaking is only fair that that cause a little bit. lou: will we see a correction? >> a little bit more pain. 10%. lou: that's a little thing? >> already done have that much. lou: it will be interesting to see where this goes. the fed can always come in and add another 20 or 30 billion to their monthly bond. i'm just kidding. good to see you. up next, lawmakers are lining up to call this man a trader. the white house calls them --
♪ lou: well, let's talk more about the in as a controversy, implications for national security. i am joined by pulitzer prize-winning journalist and columnist and a former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, bott fox is contributors. let's begin with you. hero, a trader, or something in between? why is the white house silent? >> something in-between category. for the moment i was a hero category until i read the interview that edward snowden gave in the china post in which he announced that the u.s. government has been hacking into chinese and hong kong sites.
61,000 others. well, that is not helpful. it does not help his case. it is going to make a lot of people like me wonder why he is doing this. lou: so it is not an accident, ambassador bolton, that edward snowden turns up in hong kong and is now carrying the -- at least in these statements, the interest of the chinese. >> i think there is a lot more to this individual and we know about. i do think his actions are treasonous. i think this is gravely damaging to the security of the united states. by the way, who died and made him king that he gets to make these decisions unilaterally? i think the point you raise about the president is important. he is out in the tall grass again. he authorized these programs for four and a half years. i understand why he cannot talk about edward snowden, given the ongoing criminal investigation. the president should be exercising his leaders, defending.
lou: this is a strange thing, the president and is press secretary remaining silent. the nsa, the head of the nsa is testifying before congress what the man has said, done, publicly and acknowledged his actions against the interest of the united states. the justice department is filing charges right now, preparing those charges to file against him. and they don't want to, in any way, create a careful around this man who is obviously acting not in the interest of the united states in divulging secrets to and about the chinese >> said think he has lots of surrogate doing that for him. i think, you know, the more he raises the question, personally at think he could interfere with the criminal investigation. beyond that -- lou: thank god. otherwise good lord, knows what
would happen to that investigation. >> this is where i part company with john. rather than look at edward snowden, i want to look at all those officials is war undergrowth that we were not doing what we now know the u.s. government is doing. i mean, mr. clapper, for example, who was asked a flat out question, are we correcting this kind of data. he said no. no. at least not intentionally. lou: he said -- >> not -- lou: i think what he said was he is being as honest as he can be. that is paraphrasing his stat i would not be so upset with that general if he said anything elle. how about you, john bolton? >> i think his answer was meretricious and maybe pretorius, but the question never should have been asked in public. that is the kind of question, a complicated answer i will give him credit for telling him in
advance. that makes his answer all the more inexplicable. lou: you are both very tough on these folks, and i have to tell you, i wonder how tough he would be if they were not, in fact, taking every effort, every pain to go through and surveil as much as they possibly could to seeking out the bad guys. and doing so within constraints that are, as the judge defined for us, legal, if not in conflict with the constitution and the judgment itself, but they are legal. >> well, we are going to find out because the aclu has now brought suit against the yen as a for this kind of activity. we're going to find out whether or not is constitutional law not . i know the answer to that question. lou: you get the last word. >> i am not sure. i don't think the aclu has standing to bring this case. i know that the executive branch, legislative branch, and the judicial branch have all
♪ neil: all right, now we really know. the guys doing their bidding, they are bolting. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. what do you call microsoft and google and facebook getting a backbone all at the same time? well, big trouble for the white house. major u.s. technology firms are putting the government on notice that they want to give their customers notice. they want to be allowed to disclose exactly how many times authorities demand of them to hand over user data. the present schism, and these high-tech guys are actually freaking out. they have customers and shareholders to wonder why they keep handing over dated